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Hardball With Chris Matthews

News/Business. (2013) (CC)

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Benghazi 9, Fbi 8, Us 7, Irs 6, The Irs 6, Boehner 5, Clinton 5, Cia 5, U.s. 5, London 4, Obama 4, Angie 3, Susan Rice 3, New York 3, Chuck Todd 3, Fargo 2, John Boehner 2, Darrell Issa 2, Dennis 2, Michele Bachmann 2,
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  MSNBC    Hardball With Chris Matthews    News/Business.  (2013)  (CC)  

    May 15, 2013
    4:00 - 5:01pm PDT  

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people get beat out of their money in a three-card monty game. where conmen move cards around and you forget where you saw the ball underneath. keep your eye on the ball. don't turn this into a three-card monty game. don't just blame the president. let's get to the facts. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. taking charge. let's play "hardball." president obama showed who was boston. the boss is the one who can fire you and fire someone he did. the head of the irs is out. obama said he was asked for his resignation and he gave it. so now it's time to head into
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the bows of that tax agency and find out who else thought it was a great idea to tilt government's case against people on one side of the political spectrum and leave the others off the hook. tonight in this second edition of "hardball," we know what was missing. the perception of leadership in the u.s. government. we have a leader. he is the president. david corn, washington bureau chief from mother jones bureau chief. and howard, start with this. the implications of the president, taking that microphone at 6:00 tonight. knocking off the acting head of the irs saying we'll do the i.g. report. by the way, we'll work with the other guys in getting to the bottom of this. >> i think this is the president that people who support him, who want to see him clean up the various messes in town were waiting for. he kind of bounded up on to the stage there. >> he did have some life. he literally did. and he said, not only am i
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angry, here's what i'm doing about it. and it had a kinetic quality. >> like he wanted to do it. >> there was action involved. it was the first time in days if not longer that he didn't seem to be just sitting there. >> he didn't have that darn it, do i have to do this. >> it wasn't just, i find this inexcusable. he said the words, i am angry which he doesn't use too often. we've talked about whether he should get angry more. just to back up a little bit. this story broke on friday. it is wednesday. in real terms, that's not a long period of time to come to a major decision about -- >> what are you, lawrence of arabia? you're thinking long terms now? that's a long time. >> the fact that he didn't do this friday. >> we live in a 24/7 world in which a minute is a long time. let's listen to the president. let's agree on something. he did a good job. the statement he made less than
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an hour ago. >> a fine job. >> i've reviewed the treasury department watch dog's report. and the misconduct that it uncovered is inexcusable. it is inexcusable and americans are right to be angry about it and i am angry about it. i will not tolerate this kind of behavior in any agency. but especially in the irs. given the power that it has and the reach that it has into all of our lives. and as i said earlier, it should not matter what political stripe you're from. the fact of the matter is that the irs has to operate with absolute integrity. the government generally has to conduct itself in a way that is true to the public trust. that is especially true for the irs. so here's what we're going to do. first, we're going to hole the responsible parties accountable. yesterday i directed secretary lu to follow up on the i.g.
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audit to see how this happened and who is responsible and to make sure that we understand all the facts. we took the first step by accepting the resignation of the agenting commissioner of the irs. because given the controversy surrounding this audit, it is important to institute new leadership that can help restore confidence going forward. second, we'll put in place new safeguards to make sure this kind of behavior cannot happen again. and i've directed secretary lu to ensure the irs begins implementing the i.g.'s recommendations right away. third. we will work with congress as it performs its oversight role. and our administration has to make sure that we are working hand in hand with congress to get this thing fixed. congress, democrats and republicans owe it to the american people to treat that authority with the responsibility it deserves and that it doesn't smack of
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politics or partisan agendas. because i think one thing that you've seen is across the board, everybody believes what happened in, as reported in the i.g.'s report is an outrage. the good news is it is fixable and it is in everyone's best interests to work together to fix it. i'll do everything in my power to make sure nothing like this happens again. by holding the responsible parties accountable, by putting in place new checks and safeguards, and going forward, by making sure that the laws applied as it should be. in a fair and impartial way. and we're going to have to make sure the laws are clear so we can have confidence that they are enforced in a fair and ill partial way. that there is not too much ambiguity surrounding these laws. so that's what i expect. that's what the american people deserve. that's what we're going to do. >> so the president basically fired the acting head of the irs
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steve miller. he asked for his resignation and got it. let's see who is pushing for a harder action. here. john boehner today said he wanted more than resignations. let's listen to his demands. >> the irs has admitted to targeting conservatives. even if the white house continues to be stuck on the word if. my question isn't about who will resign. my question is who is going to jail over this scandal? >> there you have the bar raised even earlier today. the president did what he can do. here's a guy presuming criminal action and criminal convictions. >> what i think the president was trying to do in addition to the substantive act that he took to send a mention to all the bureaucracy, and especially the irs which as he said, has to be holier than thou. absolute integrity. the irs has to have absolute integrity.
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i think the president was trying to isolate issa. darryl issa and his investigative hordes on the hill who have just begun. >> he can say, look, i want the lead investigation done by a senior democratic senator on the hill who has a decent ranking member on the other side. the senate is not crazy like the house yet. so you can find -- >> no, no. >> can it work -- >> darrell issa will do what darrell issa does. but you have marco rubio saying we demand an investigation. we demand an investigation. this is after eric holder had already announced a criminal investigation. that's going on. the fbi is being called in. the senate and the house do not investigate in order to put anyone in jail.
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that's the fbi's job to do. whatever happen on the hill. >> as a matter of fact you bring up a very good point. if you really want to put people in jail. if that's what boehner's real objective is, don't hold hearings. you put those people up testifying on capitol hill. that stuff cannot be used in a criminal trial. so you can turn boehner's argument around the world on the issas of the world. >> what do you think they want? an investigation or a conviction? >> they want headlines. they want to make it look like the white house is stalling. look at this. if they investigate at the end of the day they decide, there is no criminal violation here. the people are fired or they're discipline or sent to siberia, that's not good enough. there is no criminal investigation. no doubt the republicans will complain that the white house sat on the investigation and smothered it.
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>> there is no excuse about, a civil service law. you can remove someone from service without accusing them of a fence. >> of course you can. >> as you point out earlier, the president fired the one person that he easily could. which was the political appointee, steve miller. when you're dealing with the other irs employees, you're dealing with civil service rules. you can put people on leave. >> here the attorney general eric holder. today he testified on capitol hill and promised a thorough criminal investigation, what that to the irs. here are his remarks. >> one of the reasons why i ordered the investigation last friday, because it seemed to me that there was the need for a review, given the potential criminal investigation that exists. that the justice department needed to be ahead of this matter and i can assure you and the american people that we will take a dispassionate view of this. this will not be about parties or i had will have per situations. anybody who has broken the law
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will be held accountable. >> can the justice department move swiftly enough to be convincing to the american people they're on top of this or will they do one of these, they'll have a task for assigned and -- >> my question is one of how speedy but also, eric holder. >> is he going to recuse himself again? >> i don't know. he recused himself from the a.p. thing. he said they've already interviewed me. i can't be part of this. so he has become radioactive. >> does he have to worry about the possible of obama campaign influence? one of the stories will be, and the republicans will push it, fair enough, was there any contact, i don't believe there was, from the obama people in the irs? >> well, we know that the i.g. report says no. no contact outside. and to have the fbi investigate, if the republicans are serious. if boehner is serious, a good investigation takes time. and you don't talk about it
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publicly. you don't say today we investigated these five people and this is what that person said and that person that. that makes it harder to get prosecutions and convictions. so if boehner is serious, the people investigate this for a criminal perspective is the fbi and it is going to take weeks, if not months to figure this out. do you think the darrell issas of the world will let this happen? i think they'll beat this drum as loud as they can so they don't have to talk about immigration or anything else. >> when they're done with that, they'll want a special prosecutor. >> you said they will already be ham strung. >> that's something that boehner might not have been thinking about when he demanded jail time. >> all i know is the world moves slowly in the political process. >> just the thought of the fbi investigating the irs is almost mind bogging. because the complexity of that and all of the thing that they may find that they're not
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looking for. >> i think you can ask some basic questions though. did you tilt this baby. thank you, howard fineman and david corn. coming up, the white house has released now more than 100 pages of the e-mail at the center of the benghazi controversy. we'll get into that and tell you what we know. and until tonight, it looked to me as if president obama was adrift. not really running the store. that the government was running with him. did he the right thing tonight. he was smart, tough, he grabbed control of the reins. i hope he is moving toward regaining the whole government. plus it's happened again. a member of the u.s. military assigned to protect people from sexual abuse gets arrested himself for sexual abuse. what business are these guys in? protecting the country or exploiting their positions of power? and republicans prove once again to them, nothing succeeds
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like excess. tomorrow they're going to vote for the 37th time to repeal obama care. and for the time, obama care won't be repealed. this is "hardball." the place for lt. your table our seafood dinner for two for just 25 dollars! first get salad and cheddar bay biscuits. then choose from a variety of seafood entrées. plus choose either an appetizer or a dessert to share. offer ends soon at red lobster! where we sea food differently. we're not in london, are we? no. why? apparently my debit card is. what? i know. don't worry, we have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo we're working around the clock to help protect your money and financial information. here's your temporary card. welcome back. how was london? [ female announcer ] when people talk, great things happen.
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why did susan rice go on the "meet the press" program on sunday after the benghazi attack and not say it was a terrorist attack? why was the al qaeda group's role in the attack taken out of
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the talking points to use that day? why was any mention of previous attacks in the area also cut out of those talking points? those are reasonable questions. why was the phrase the leadership used in those talking points? why not the secretary of state? did it refer to clinton? is that whom the staffer was citing? who is the leadership? what role did secretary clinton play in the preparation of what ambassador rice had to say that day. did they talk? did they communicate through enter need areas? what role did the national security 55or tom donlan play? all those dozens of e-mail? what role did anyone representing the president play there? bottom line, who was in charge, who had the time word on what it's ambassador was supposed to say that day on sunday. oh, yeah. did the president call and congratulate rice her on performance that day? if so, who else did? because if she towed the company line that day, please tell me who wrote it.
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the age old sign of something to hide. late today the white house did release 100 pages of e-mail about those talking points and why, and by whom. an independent senator is a member of the intelligence committee. chuck todd is nbc's political director, and michael isikoff is the investigative report he. i would like all you gentlemen when you answer my questions to answer why it matters to the public. why it matters to the republic and why are we talking about it? why is it important? let me start with you, senator king. why do you think it is important that the president put out these documents, these e-mail? >> i think it is one of the reason you said. >> if you're not giving something away, i used to believe in executive privilege but i think it is much better in a case like this just to get it
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out there. i suggested that on the air two or three days ago. and i've been through them. we can talk about them in some detail. i went through them about six weeks ago. my conclusion is what's the fuss about? the thrust of the issue was did the administration somehow manipulate the talking points to change from a terrorist attack to a responsibility demonstration? as you go through these talking points, they start with a spontaneous demonstration. the general counsel said cia said let's be careful, folks. the fbi and the people doing the investigation don't want us talking about who we think might be responsible. and then later on, there is an anti-smoking gun. a memo on the 14th which was the day before susan rice went on tv
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from a guy named matt olson who is a long time anti-terrorism guy. he is the head of the national anti-terrorism center. he said at this point, we're not aware of any actionable intelligence that this attack was planned or imminent. the intelligence community is combing through before and after to determine the full extent of who was involved. i dotted there is some evidence in here that the state department was covering themselves because they had some warnings about possible problems along these lines. but it doesn't seem to implicate hillary clinton and it certainly doesn't match the narrative that this was all somehow a political cover-up of what actually happened on those days. so i'm glad the white house released the reports. we're going to pore through them. i read them six or eight weeks ago. i don't think there's much there, there. >> what's the building leadership mean to you? when you're referring to the state department. why would someone refer to the building leadership? what does that mean?
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>> i honestly don't know. >> it is weird talk. i'm always suspicious of weird talk. >> maybe it means hillary clinton. i did not see that she was copied on any of these documents. >> we've got news along the lines of what you just said. the united states government officials say they've identified a person who played a central role in the attack on the united states consulate in benghazi and that the federal criminal charges will not sue be made public. the person to be name in this charge or in these charges is not yet in u.s. custody. one official said. let me go to chuck todd on this. chuck, your view of what we watched tonight. the questions and answers. >> the big picture was this was the ides of may, may 15th. it will be known as damage
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control wednesday for the white house. the question is, is this the way they were able to put this behind them? benghazi, irs, and the a.p. and going after the phone records or is this going to be just the start of what is a long slog in battle that may get partisan back and for the with republicans on capitol him. as for benghazi, look. i think from 30,000 feet, this is a really ugly way of viewing how government works. the deputies are in charge. note how late in the process that the head of the cia is alerted of the talking points when they said, hey, we'd better let the director know what we've come up with. at the white house, deputies. at state, it was deputies. they're all doing all of the work. they're all putting this together waiting for final signoff. and it one of the more intriguing e-mail that i think
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raises questions is petraeus's reaction when he says, no mention of the cable to cairo eats? frankly i just as soon not use this. then national security counsel is called. to be sure, this is certainly not what vice chairman relationsh was hoping to get. so that raises some questions that obviously petraeus thought more should be included. not less. >> you know, mike isikoff, i'm wondering. we're going along this like a trail of crumbs. you're going through them right now. how do we know that there weren't phone call throughout this? from secretary clinton, talking to the demts, giving them direction. why do we keep sanitizing this business of government. it does look like a process that
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doesn't have anybody in charge. where everybody is concerned about the equities of others and are we going to tick off somebody in another department. there's no smoking gun here. nothing that shows clear political partisan motives. there is that undertone that the cia warnings will come back to bite them. that they are going to get blamed. why did not we pay more attention to that? we've heard about the victoria reports before. there is a revealing one from another official at state, david adams. they will read to members like we had been repeatedly warned. >> let me go to senator king on that. how do you deny, the secretary
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of state or an appointee saying, we don't want to mention that there were six earlier occurrences of terrorism. we don't want to mention the name shari'a because we don't want to have any reference to the fact that there is terrorism in that neighborhood, active terrorism and we weren't ready for it. you can't justify that. i don't think there is any doubt. early on, a guy named steve, the general counsel of the cia sent this memo. he said i know there is a hurry to get this out. we need to hold it long enough to ascertain whether providing it conflicts with express instructions from national security staff justice department fbi that in light of the criminal investigation which we just heard some results of, we are not to generate statements with assessments as to who did this, et cetera. even internally not to mention for public release.
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that's the cia, not the state department. i'm not going on defend them. it is clear they were trying to defend themselves. chuck used the 30,000 foot term. as i understand this issue, the allegation has been that somehow the obama campaign, the obama white house, manipulated this to not say it was involved with terrorists. if you use the e-mails, it is clear they thought right to that week that it was a spontaneous demonstration that evolved in, it they used the word. evolved into the attack. then there was the mortar attack. i don't think it covers the state department with any glory, that's for sure. >> let me go to chuck todd for the last word. the politics of this thing from
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the beginning, was it protecting the secretary of state? was it protecting donlan? the one thing absent in all this discussion are name of principals. they're not in this discussion. it is already demts saying the building leadership. these weird references to their bosses. i have to assume going up to that "meet the press" day when susan rice was getting her audition to be secretary of state, there was an intense interest from the president on down in how good a job she did and i thought she did a hell of a job as a political warrior. >> there was politics involved here. when you read through this, if it had just been the white house and the cia dealing, writing these talking points, the more complete set of talking points would have made it. you saw the early signoffs. it is when state weighed in. you have to remember what i understand has been going. on number one, an internal
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debate under the cia about whether it was spontaneous or video or related to that youtube. there were some in langley and they were seeing it all over the middle east versus what was taking place on the ground in benghazi when the reports were there. the other aspect about this, the state department knows that benghazi facility is mostly a cia facility. that is another part of this. it is like, hey, they're fingering state but let's remember, it is the cia with more resources. this is agency politics. >> we've got to go. please come back as soon as you can. keep away here. i see you're working as i work. house republicans are trying to do something they've already failed at. 36 time before. they're trying to repeal obama care. that's all they do. that's ahead. this is "hardball." the place for politics.
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shouldn't he be up to date on the big news before the rest us? >> mr. president, when did you final out about the irs targeting conservative groups? >> i first learned about it from the same news reports that i think most people learned about this. i think it was on friday. >> what was that day i found out the incredibly powerful arm of the government may be using its power for political purposes? let's see. that was, nobody thought to mention this issue to the president. a slight oversight. it never happened before. >> i heard on the news. about this story that, fast and furious. >> it happened one other time with the fast and furious. >> it was something we found out about along with all of you. >> that other time when air
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force one did an unannounced post 9/11 statue of liberty flyover. >> he found out about the news reports yesterday on the road. and yesterday's news that the department of justice had seized two months of phone records from a.p. reporters. i wouldn't be surprised if president obama learned osama bin laden had been kill when he saw himself announcing it on television. >> that guy is a riot. it does seem to be something of a pattern. next, this is the week for house republicans. more of a rehash for something they've already tried 36 times. repeal obama care. yes, it is up for another vote tomorrow in the house. the new york times crunched some number since republicans gained control of the house after the 2010 mid terms. there have been 36 votes on obama care. time has been set aside on 43 days for the votes to occur. in fact, republicans spent 15% of all their time on the house floor, addressing some aspect of
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obamacare. last week john boehner gave a clue about why this vote is happening. >> we've got 70 new members that have not had the opportunity to vote on the president's health care law. frankly, they've been asking for an opportunity to vote on it and we're going to give it to them. >> basically the new folks want to be able to head home and say they voted against obamacare. next, michele bachmann finds a by to give a shout out to her favorite news source. here she is outside a republican meeting sporting google glasses. a voice activated computer attached to a pair of glasses. it was recounted on twitter, quote, michele bachmann tries to google glasses today. the website she visits first, go to drudge, she says. so the first foray into the latest wave of technology was to the drudge report. finally, we turn to the new york time cross word puzzle.
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54 across. chris matthews' channel. five letters. come on. an easy one. you're watching it. msnbc. up next, i've had big questions about whether president obama is really in charge of this government. tonight, he did the smart thing. the tough thing. by firing the active head of the irs. is he starting to take control of the government again? let's see. this day calls you. to fight chronic osteoarthritis pain. to fight chronic low back pain.
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president obama took command tonight, certainly. he spoke clearly, crisply and unflinchingly about the scandal at the irs. he needed to do that because at
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time it has seemed there was no firm hand on the wheel at the white house. no ceo running the show behind the scenes. joining me now is glen and michael. i'm going to give time to express my opinion and i'll let you do it now. first, glen, your thoughts about the span of control from this president. has he been running the executive branch or has he been a u.s. senator in the white house observing everything, having an opinion and a speech for all occasions but has he been running the government? >> i think this is not a guy, a president who came into this job with a ceo mentality. that's a michael bloomberg. this is a guy who likes to guide the broader decisions. that said he had earlier on when he had other folks in his administration a little bit of a firmer grasp on the tiller of government. he had been running a campaign
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for a year and a half. and a lot of the advisers in the west wing were very. focused on campaigning. i think toggling back to governance, particularly back to second term when you have these endless investigations is proving to be a rough transition. i think tonight was a down payment on that. we'll see how he does for the rest of the week. >> you know, maybe this is an old saw that i began working the last two days but i'm going on stick with it. this president doesn't delegate to a chief of staff the normal duties of a chief of staff. to be the chief operating officer have to united states executive branch. i don't sense that dennis or anybody before him has the power to go around the agencies and kick butt, fire people, take action. even tonight president had to do it himself. does he not show a willingness to have a strong accountable chief of staff? is it always those around him? >> i think what we had -- >> does he have the power to hire and fire?
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>> under the president, sure, on a decision like this, firing the head of the irs -- >> the president did that. >> the first few days here, the president and the white house wanted to distance themselves from it. they didn't want to get wrapped up in whatever was happening with the irs. you had the president trying to distance himself from benghazi. they realize that had strategy wasn't. they had to show some leadership and take control. you saw them using the east room. the gold curtains and everything to show that he is president. the president doesn't hike this sort of theater. he doesn't like doing stuff just to show that he is in control. or doing stuff to -- >> why do you call it theater if you follow a guy who blew it? that's reality. >> the firing is not theater. the fact that he didn't present to have more control than he did, they want to distance the president from these scandals.
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you can only go so far so they're circling back. i had the president will be very hands. on he is very invested in how well the irs looks at the end of the process. obama care is coming down the pike. the republican there's beat up on him. he needs this very large dysfunctional agency can handle this task. so he has enormous interests to put himself at the center of this. >> maybe i've got the wrong model but it is my model. a president who sets the standard for the program he wants to follow sets the value system, the philosophy, and has people that will carry that out in the strongest possible way across the span of the federal government. through the irs. through the fbi. during a great society, there was a viewing throughout the government. a essential of who this person was from the top down. and enforced by tough chiefs of staff like a jim baker. and made sure you got the job
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done. if the omb director got in the way, he was put in the wood shed. people were forced to obey. i don't think i see that. i do hear a lot about sycophants who can get the president's ear. i'm just reading john aldridge's book. it is all about them being undercut. this president will not authorize someone else to chop off head. >> you were saying is this guy still a united states senator? i would go back further on his cv and talk about him as a lawyer. one of the big issues i've been hearing, he is too deferential to the lawyers. he was very deferential to bob bauer, his first counsel. and his current counsel, a very good lawyer by all accounts, has counseled caution, caution, caution in response to all these things. is that why he cannot get rid of
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gitmo? i think that's a part of it. i think he had such a negative experience. one of the few firings that he did, greg craig was a result of the gitmo experience. that's left a bad taste in his mouth. this is a guy who listens to the attorneys around him and has to some extent has too much of a deferential to the rule of law. that came out wrong. but rob gibbs, his former press secretary was a guy who would go in and challenge the lawyers from what i have heard. he did that on the bp oil spill when he wanted to get the head of bp in. the lawyers apparently told gibbs, no. it took a while for obama to come around to that, i was told. he finally did it. >> thank you, thank you michael. we'll keep arguing about the way obama gets through his good values and makes them pay. it has happened again.
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another military serviceman whose job it is to protect against sexual assault is accused now of sexual assault. this is very tricky stuff. very bad stuff, i think. coming up here in a minute. not bad. this tree has deep roots, strong limbs... things are perched and not pinned. nicely done. the boys love it. they are up there day and night. well that might be because you overlooked one thing... what? it looks into your neighbor's window. ohhh boy. hel-lo, mrs. kozlowski. boys? i'm gonna get the hose. [ dennis ] home insurance with do-it-yourself tips? that's allstate home insurance. great protection plus helpful advice to make life better. talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] and let the good life in. [ doorbell rings ] help the gulf recover, andnt to learn from what happenedg goals: so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology,
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that's a lot but it is down more than $200 billion from its estimate as recently as february. the smallest deficit sense 2008 which is five years ago. the deficit had been topping $1 trillion every year cynic the recession ended four years ago. they credit the economic recovery, new tax rules and spending cuts with shrinking the deficit. we'll be right back. i'm so glad you called. thank you. we're not in london, are we? no. why? apparently my debit card is. what? i know. don't worry, we have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo we're working around the clock to help protect your money
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it may seem hard to believe that you're not experiencing day sha 52 here but it happened again. a military serviceman whose job it is to protect against sexual assault is accused himself of
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sexual assault. the latest case involve a ft. hood sergeant. i couldn't believe it. for prostitution and sexually assaulting this guy did, guy di apparently charged with two others. the army's not releasing his identity as he has not been charged officially, but get a load of his job title, sexual harassment response and coordinator. that's right, the guy you're supposed to go to for help is accused of sexually assaulting someone. this comes just one week after the man in charge of sexual assault from the entire air force was charged with sexual battery. last night defense secretary chuck hagel ordered a retraining, rescreening, and recredentialing of all sex assault officers. this is what could make this time different, seven female
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members, all senators, who make up a little more than a quarter of the committee. on the house side, women comprise about one in five of the committee members. these are huge committees, of course. joining me, politico's wanda summers and goldie tower, who served in the marines. wanda, give us a sense, are these bad apples or systemic, the old question about any organization? >> chris, if you ask any lawmakers, they'll tell you this is proven, this is a systemic issue. it's a cultural issue within the military that needs to be addressed. where so frequently you have women and men reporting they have been the victims of rape and sexual assault. obviously, if that's a cultural issue, that's quite hard to legislate and tough thing for lawmakers on capitol hill to swallow. they are looking to the pentagon to see if they are going to get their act together and reduce these number of trends. >> we have a volunteer army, we're proud of it, you join the army because you want to, you see personal, patriotic, and
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career opportunities there. why would anybody that's a good person want to join a military with this developing reputation? people in the 18, 19-year-old age range watching this show, especially if i'm a woman, then there are bad apples, hey, looks loosy goosy, i'm going to join. this is a terrible recruitment poster for the bad people and a really bad one for the good people. your thoughts, wanda, if it is systemic. >> absolutely. i talk to lawmakers all the time and they have family who serves in the military and this makes it hard to sell for them when they have mothers and fathers coming up and asking them, is it safe for my kid to join the military. that means there needs to be a change in leadership. you have to reach people from everywhere from the secretary of defense level to those enlisted men and women who are the boots on the ground in places like afghanistan and iraq. >> let me go to goldie, you've been on the show and you're a good guest, you know what you're talking about. when you think about this
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sergeant involved here running a prostitution operation with someone completely dependent on him, emotionally, politically, powerwise, he's used this person, apparently, that's the charge. what is his or her lieutenant, the person above them that benefits not at all from this guy's operation? why wouldn't they have grabbed him, stopped him, got him kicked out? >> number one, this is about absolute power, one more stripe, one more medal than you, i have absolute control over your life. the stripe above him is reward for the lack of incidences in his chain of command. there is no advantage in the world for him or her to report and more advantageous of them to keep a clean chain of command. the issue here is this culture has been going on for decades. this is a cancer that has metastasized into the bone. the question earlier, would we
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encourage young men and women today to join the selective services? i am the mother of grown men and women, i would encourage none of them, and i am proud of my service. i would not encourage any of them to join. >> there's a wonderful line of a movie you know, saturday house rules, what business are you in? i want to ask you, goldie, because you've been in there, are people joining the military because they like this opportunity to enforce sexual rule over someone else rather than defend their country, they like this line of work, because it gives them this enormous power over people? >> i think for me, it was an opportunity for a career, for an egts, and by and large, that is the choice for people who join selective service, but as in any career, there are bad apples. the military simply provides a greater feel for those bad apples to flourish and that's what has to stop. >> let me go to wanda for the last word here. how wide is it, 5%, 10%, can you tell? >> these are huge numbers from our reporting, as many as 26,000 men and women across the armed
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services may have been assaulted or victims of rape last year. the big statistic, though, just a small percent, about 3,300 of those people felt comfortable to report that. that's one issue that has to stop. people have to feel if they are victims of these bad apples, as goldie said, they have to go to their chain of command, whoever's in charge, and feel comfortable enough to say i was assaulted or raped. >> good for chuck hagel if he gets control of this. this would be a lifetime achievement if he cleans up this mess. thank you, wanda summers and thank you for your service, goldie taylor, and your testimony. when we return, let me finish with what we saw tonight, a president starting to take control of the problems that have plagued him. he's moving and that's good. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. not really. aaah! jessica! whoa! your friend's a rate sucker. her bad driving makes car insurance
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let me finish tonight with this, president obama took charge tonight. i've said that already. what he needs to do now is accept full duty to do the job and show it across the boshd of the united states government. most important, he needs to get the engine turning. if anyone watching thinks the unemployment rate is acceptable right now, i disagree with you. people who want to work should be put to work. i can't think of a more important job for this president than begin a national push for jobs. start with transportation, water, sewer, rapid rail, it's time for us to catch up with europe, asia, and the rest of the economically developed world. go over to france if you have a chance ever and see these trains over there, in asia, these
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trains go 300 miles an hour and we've got amtrak. most parts of the country we've got nothing. let's rebuild this country, get people to work doing it so we can stop did ling around and wasting our time over talking points. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes, and thank you for joining us on a night when we have big breaking news out of the white house on two different fronts. today the white house released 100 pages of e-mails of the administration's internal discussions over the benghazi attacks, e-mails that show, are you ready for this, the sound and fury over the administration's characterization of the tragedy is still much adieu about nothing. we'll get to that. but this evening, president obama also addressed the irs screening of certain right wing groups for extra scrut

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